Feedback Live streaming video of a meeting with Roma veterans who voluntarily joined the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The event was organised on 29 April 2025 in Brussels by ADC ‘Memorial’ in partnership with the Ukrainian Centre of Romani Studies at Kherson State University and with the support of IPHR.
The idea of the event was to bring to the EU capital the voices of Roma from Ukraine, who share the hardships of war alongside other Ukrainians—many of them have chosen to defend their country on the battlefields. The speakers were Arsen Mednik and Oleksii Panchenko, veterans of the Armed Forces of Ukraine of Roma origin, as well as Yanush Panchenko, an expert, researcher, and co-founder of the Ukrainian Centre of Romani Studies at KSU. Yanush was forced to flee the temporarily occupied territory of Kherson region and continues his human rights work in exile.
The event included a screening of a fragment from a documentary film about Arsen Mednik.
Transcript of the discussion
Janush Panchenko: How did you decide to go to the front, why?
Arsen Mednik: I went to the front because my family was under occupation in the town of Bucha. This is my home. My family lives there, and my Ukrainian neighbors. We have always been close to them and shared last piece of bread. I am well known there, almost all my relatives are from there. I went to fight for my home and for my family.
Janush Panchenko: Tell us about the first days when you got to the front. What were your emotions? How did they treat you in Civil Defense?
Arsen Mednik: At first, I was treated with distrust — as a gypsy, as a person who seemed to be out of place there. They considered me not needed. But everything changed during the first fight. Then they saw that I was talking business, giving clear instructions on what to do. There were two guys with me at the time — we quickly became friends, they listened to me. We survived, and after that, I was treated very differently. I’ve destroyed their stereotypes, destroyed barriers. They realized that nationality doesn’t matter — if you’re human, then you’re human.
Janush Panchenko: What fronts did you fight on?
Arsen Mednik: I fought in the Kherson area as part of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Before that, at the very beginning, I served in the Civil Defense in the Kyiv region, including in Bucha and Kyiv.
Janush Panchenko: How did it happen that you were first in the Civil Defense, and then got into the stormtroopers?
Arsen Mednik: I’ll tell you this interesting story. We were sitting in the trenches, and the stormtroopers were walking next to us — they moved like a single mechanism, cohesively, precisely. I watched at them and was amazed. I was so impressed that I had a strong desire to become part of such a team, to work like them. That’s when I decided I wanted to be a stormtrooper. By that time, my family had been given a “green corridor” — they managed to get out, they were taken out, and they ended up in Romny. I left the Civil Defense, immediately came to the military enlistment office and joined the queue. Three days later, I was already at the training camp. I had experience, and my commander from the Civil Defense helped speed up the process — thanks to him, I got to the training faster than usual. I want to tell you how I got my nick-name, Baron. From the very beginning, I showed commanding abilities and leadership qualities. I am open and fair, and I have always told everyone the truth openly, regardless of whether they are officers, colonels, or ordinary soldiers. For me, everyone was equal, and I communicated openly with everyone. When someone tried to argue with me, I spoke bluntly: “I’m a suicide bomber, I’m going to die. What do you want to explain to me? We are alive today, there may not be tomorrow. Do you think you’ll punish me with a piece of paper?” At the same time, I respected the officers in the Armed Forces of Ukraine. They were real men, they always stood up for the right cause. I have never had any aggression or prejudice from them. I knew how hard it was for them, and I saw that they coped with their duties one hundred percent, and sometimes even more. Their attitude towards me was respectful, even special. Not as a “gypsy”, but as a person who knows how to do something. After all, I was engaged in trade before the war, I had practical knowledge. When I arrived at the training camp, there were machine guns lying around—12.7 caliber, Browning M1, I think. No one knew how to set them up properly. I found the instructions on YouTube, studied everything, and set up the machine gun immediately. They tried before me, but it didn’t work, but everything worked for me right away. After that, I was treated with great respect.
Janush Panchenko: You’re a Rom. Have there been any unpleasant situations because of this?
Arsen Mednik: Yes, there was a story. When I first joined the Armed Forces of Ukraine, one guy said, “Gypsies are funny people, good people, but we don’t need them here.” Apparently, he was one of those who used to treat Roma with disdain, believed that it was possible to humiliate, point fingers, show racism. I didn’t even have time to answer him — my brothers said everything for me. They immediately stopped him and explained who was standing in front of him. No physical abuse, just a tough talk with him, put him in his place. He realized that he was mistaken, and he did not say such words again.
Janusz Panchenko: Before you joined the army, before the war, did you face discrimination in your life?
Arsen Mednik: Of course, I did. I had a case with the police. I worked for the Mr. Master network in Ukraine (a repairing service) — I don’t know if it exists now. I was a critical craftsman, which means that I was fixing shoes that were ruined by another craftsman. At such cases, the client doesn’t have time to wait, and I had to work quickly to redo the shoes. I moved between service kiosks, I needed to deliver materials, keys, papers — and a lot of other things. The police often stopped me at the entrance to the subway. Really — every time I came in. I’ve already gotten used to it, and when I saw a policeman, I knew that he would come up again. I was already instinctively reaching into my pocket for my passport, while a policeman was grabbing for his weapon. Such discrimination was on the part of the police in 2013. Then, of course, it changed a little, it got better. But all the same, when the police come, as if it’s their own, without respect, it’s not normal. They can enter even if a person does not know their rights, if they are not educated. He doesn’t understand what’s going on, and they start dictating to him what to do.
Janush Panchenko: How do you explain to yourself that, despite discrimination, you decided to join the Ukrainian army? After all, you will, in fact, protect those who discriminated against you.
Arsen Mednik: You asked a difficult question. First of all, I did not go to war for the sake of those people who discriminated against me. I understand why they did this – because it was the result of Soviet propaganda, which was deeply embedded in their minds. I went to fight for the future, for the children, both Ukrainian and Roma, for the people. We adults are expendable, we’re here today, we might not be here tomorrow. But children are the future, and they need to be educated and protected. But the main point for me is the family. When you realize that your family is in captivity, and someone can come with a gun and do anything, you realize that you have the opportunity to take up arms and protect them. I took advantage of this opportunity.
Stefania Kulaeva: I really understand the story that discrimination is often related to the fact that people do not know each other, do not know the people, and because of this, stereotypes are formed. This is a typical example that you described. In extreme situations, discrimination disappears because it is important how a person works. Have you faced discrimination at the front? You had a multinational team, there were guys of different nationalities. Have you ever encountered anything like this?
Arsen Mednik: Yes, there was an example. We had a Syrian in our team. He has lived in Ukraine all his life, but is Syrian by nationality. When he joined the airborne assault brigade, Ukrainians began to show a completely different interest in him, because, on the one hand, he fought and fought heroically, but at the same time they were wary of him because of his nationality. I watched it from the sidelines and realized how people are starting to look at it differently. At first, he was perceived as a stranger, as a not important person, but later everything changed. Unfortunately, people often judge by appearance or nationality, but real actions show who you really are. It’s unpleasant, but unfortunately it happens.
Stefania Kulaeva: Thank you, I really agree with the idea that Soviet propaganda influenced everyone, it left many people immersed in racism. This is the case in many countries. Therefore, I would like to ask Alexey the following question. Have you ever encountered racism, and I understand that you are a little older than Arsen, — so Soviet and post-Soviet? And how does it feel now?
Alexey Panchenko: In my case, I have not come across this, there was no such thing. Everybody was friendly, there were no problems either in education or profession. My profession is driving; I worked all over Europe on trucks, I was a mechanic. When the war started, I joined the army voluntarily. We all went together. I left the occupation zone on April 8, 2022, and by the 15th of April I was already at the military enlistment office.
Stefania Kulayeva: So you, like Arsen, survived the rapid occupation of the place where your family lived?
Alexey Panchenko: Yes, of course. My family still lives there — and is still under occupation. I myself lived in the Zaporizhia region.
Stefania Kulayeva: I would like to ask about your military experience. Was it more difficult for you than for others, or were you comfortable in your division?
Alexey Panchenko: It wasn’t easy for anyone there — absolutely for no one. I was a driver, driving a big car. We were mostly sent for evacuation and transportation. There were a lot of work, I was always on move.
Arsen Mednik: Did they ask you “Are you a Rom”? A Gypsy by nationality?
Alexey Panchenko: No, they didn’t ask. At first, no one knew. Later, maybe, they guessed, but no one asked anything.
Stefania Kulayeva: I have a question for both of you about the occupation. In our reports, when we collected information from Mariupol residents and people from the occupied territories of the Kherson region and the Zaporizhia region, we often heard that the locals were afraid not so much of the war as of the occupiers. People were experiencing filtering and roadblocks. Did your family have such concerns? Have you experienced discrimination from the occupation authorities?
Alexey Panchenko: We left on the 8th April 2022, with three children. We were stopped at a checkpoint in Vasilivka, Zaporizhia region. There was a man of Chechen nationality there. I showed him the documents, he said: “You stay here, everything will be fun.” But I said I didn’t want to, and we drove on. There was no filtering, they just checked the documents, and we continued on our way. We were stopped at checkpoints about 15 times, but without any problems. As a result, we left Vasilyevka and went to the territory controlled by Ukraine.
Arsen Mednik: It was a little different for me. When we were under occupation, I didn’t encounter any filtering. But when we left and arrived in Romny, there was an unpleasant situation with my relatives. I have a large family, and they arrived two days after me, they were first settled in a refugee camp, and then they called me, saying that they had been kicked out. I went there with my commander, and he told them, “Aren’t they human? Do you know how many Roma I have [in my division]? You would change your mind if you saw them!” It helped, and my relatives were sent back to the camp. Four days later, they left for Europe.
Stefania Kulayeva: It is known about Bucha that a massacre took place there — many civilians were killed. This applied not only to Bucha itself, but also to the surrounding settlements. What was the situation with the Roma during the occupation of this region? Are there any known cases where Roma have been injured?
Arsen Mednik: Yes, I am aware of such a case in Borodyanka. There, Roma guys seem to have enlisted in the Civil Defense. The occupation began almost immediately. I don’t know for sure if their names were on any Russian lists, but I was told that these guys were shot. Their wives were raped, then shot, too. And what happened to the children, I can’t say for sure. I don’t think there are such monsters who will do anything to children. I hope the kids are okay. It was about three guys, about three families.
Stefania Kulayeva: Do you know of any such cases in the Kherson region?
Arsen Mednik: To be honest, there are many cases, but I rather can tell you about what happened in other places, which my mother told me about. When I was in the storm-brigade, I didn’t have an opportunity to communicate, as the situation was so tense that I didn’t have time to communicate. I quit my military service, started traveling around Europe and communicating, and I left Kakhovka, which had been occupied since the beginning of the full-scale invasion, five or six months later. In the early months, there were few Russian troops in the city, but over time there were more of them. I know of several cases that have occurred in Kakhovka.
Janush Panchenko: When I was under occupation, I tried to conduct research, communicated with the victims and their families, with people who were in captivity. One of the first cases I found out about was a Roma guy with a disability who was abducted in Kakhovka. He was 17 years old, and a Ukrainian journalist Oleg Baturin was abducted together with him. This guy’s family couldn’t find him for 10 days and called me asking about his whereabouts. I tried to post the information on the Internet, but it didn’t work in the occupation. This guy was abducted by Russian soldiers and taken to prison. He was first held in Nova Kakhovka, and then transferred to Kherson. The guy’s grandmother repeatedly asked questions about her grandson at checkpoints, but she was told that they did not take away civilians. As a result, when the guy returned home, he said that he was picked up at a checkpoint when he was riding a bike without having his documents with him. He was put in a cell and forced to work — to dig, collect and bury the bodies. A few days later, when they started beating him, the soldiers realized that he had mental problems, and after that he was released. This case was confirmed by Oleg Baturin, who was in the same cell with this guy. There was also a case in Kherson when a Roma woman, a Russian citizen, along with her family, encountered Russian soldiers who came to her house and started looking for gold, drugs and money. Having found nothing, they began to destroy the walls covered with clapboard. When the woman tried to protect her children, they put a bag over her head and took her son away, demanding money for his release. The amount she raised allowed her to redeem her son, but after that his passport was not returned to him so that he could not go abroad. However, having a Ukrainian passport, he was still able to travel through Russia and get to Europe. Another case happened to my brother, who lived in Nova Kakhovka. He went to Kakhovka to check what was going on in the house, and he was detained at one of the checkpoints. He forgot to delete the correspondence with a friend where they discussed the events at the front, from his smartphone. For this, he was held for about a day, and then released. They said he would be sent to Crimea, but the car did not arrive, and in the end he was released. There have been many such cases, but many Roma do not want to talk about them because they are afraid for their homes and possessions. People don’t want to take their pain out in public because it can make the situation worse and lead to even bigger problems. Besides, there is another problem. Many Roma are afraid to talk about what happened because they don’t want to lose the chance to return home or visit their homes in the future. The situation remains uncertain, and fear for the house and property keeps them silent. A lot of people don’t talk about their experiences in order to keep the opportunity to return, or at least leave a chance that everything will get better. The second reason why Roma are often silent is psychological. In general, the Roma have this logic: yes, everything is bad now, it was really hard, but let’s not talk about it, because if we start talking, it will get even worse.
Stefania Kulayeva: I understand that your family members are in different regions, and some of them are in the occupied territories. I also know that the soldiers, whose families remained in the occupation, are practically deprived of the opportunity to keep in touch with them. People are afraid that the very fact of being related to the Armed Forces of Ukraine may pose a threat: contact with such a relative may lead to arrest or reprisals against the family by the occupiers. That’s why I understand that there are topics that you probably just can’t talk about right now because of the high risk, especially if not all of your relatives have managed to leave.
Janush Panchenko: Yes, these are cases that directly relate to life and health. If we talk about property — houses, cars —even when it is taken away, it is already perceived almost as something ordinary and not important. There is less and less talk about this, although it should be the focus of attention. For example, Russian soldiers lived in my house. My friends also had their property taken away. This happens so often that, unfortunately, it has ceased to be perceived as something exceptional — although in peacetime, of course, this would be an egregious case. I would like to ask Alexey a few more questions, and then, if any of those present have any questions for him or for other speakers, I will be happy to give the floor. We have already started talking about the fact that you, Alexey, were a Rom at the front, but we have not yet discussed this topic more deeply. Nevertheless, people found out that you were a Rom anyway. How did they react when they first heard or saw it?
Alexey Panchenko: They were very surprised, to be honest. Literally, two weeks after my arrival at the front, people from other battalions, from other corps, came to watch. I was in the first unit, and even people from other units came there, as if on excursion. It’s really like going on excursion. Many people were surprised.
Janush Panchenko: Roma live apart, and most of the time they communicate within their community. How was it for you to be at the front among non-Roma and realize that your life depends on non-Roma, but their lives depend on you, a Rom?
Alexey Panchenko: Everyone is exactly equal there. Wherever you are — in the trenches, in the woods, driving — there is no difference. Everyone is equal. There was no disagreement, no discrimination. They drank water from one bottle, and divided one can of stew into five. That’s how it is.
Janusz Panchenko: A question for Arsen. You joined the Ukrainian army. At first, as you said, the attitude towards you was wary, distant. And then at some point you became the acting commander. How did this happen and how did you get this position?
Arsen Mednik: I’ll tell you now. During the first battle, when I served in the storm forces, my commander was killed. We had sergeants there, senior sergeants, and they themselves decided that I would be the commander. They offered it to me, they set it up themselves, in fact. They tell me, “You’re the commander now.” I say: “What do you mean, Commander?” And they said, “Well, you saw for yourself — you ran here, stormed there, went there, brawled here, didn’t sit still. You were under shooting, but you managed to move forward.” They saw that I was both brave and savvy, and that’s how they left me in command.
Janush Panchenko: Which incident or situation, perhaps the fight, do you remember the most? What remains in your memory the most?
Arsen Mednik: There are many such situations, but one is particularly memorable… The bad one. When a young man was killed, he was 22 years old. His name was Yura, unfortunately I don’t remember his last name. The tank pierced him through a bulletproof vest. There are different shells in the tank — scrap, high-explosive. He was hit by a crowbar, a heavy metal projectile. He punched through a tree, then a bulletproof vest, broke his ribs, pressed the armor into his body… The metal was moving at such a speed that the guy was literally pressed into the tree. They couldn’t even take it off. He was shouting in a voice that wasn’t his own… it was so pity that I was crying. We were good friends. He was a good guy.… God rest his soul. These emotions are like the loss of a loved one. Although he is Ukrainian, there is absolutely no difference there. He died, and it was a personal loss for me. We were friends for two or three months, he was great. 22 years old. No wife, no kids. The only son, no family, no children. He was killed, and there will be no one else after him. This is genocide. It’s really genocide.
Janush Panchenko: Alexey, what is the most memorable incident or situation for you during your service?
Alexey Panchenko: There are many such cases, really. But I think I’ll tell you about my birthday at the front. The guys went to the store, they brought a large cake and two bottles of champagne. At that time, I was sleeping in a KAMAZ truck. And for me it was the best gift — that everyone was there, alive and well. Because there is a lot of death there. Too much. I don’t want to talk about it… But it’s true.
Question from the audience: Did you experience discrimination as a child? As far as I understand, you grew up in Ukraine. Was there discrimination then?
Arsen Mednik: There was a lot of discrimination. At school, they pointed fingers, called me a “gypsy.” I even had to use force to avoid being touched. When I was about 13, I was deeply in love with a classmate, and she called me a gypsy. It was very disappointing. It may seem funny now, but it wasn’t at all that time. It was painful, and I began to shut myself off from people. I felt free and normal at home, but at school I was constantly being mocked, poked with finger, “gypsy, gypsy.” Children can be cruel, of course, but no one chooses who they are born to be. If you imagine sending a Ukrainian to America, for example, turn on propaganda against him and start showing that he is the worst in the world.… How would he feel? And I had it all the time when I was a kid.
Question from the audience: I want to thank Arsen and Alexey for their heroism in the battles for freedom and independence of Ukraine against the Russian occupiers, and ask Arsen: how serious are the consequences of your injury? I can see that there are problems with your hand and fingers, and that hearing has not yet recovered.
Arsen Mednik: You see, I have a bump on my head from a helmet. The hand is a metal splinter wound — you can come and touch it. There are splinters in the forearm and everywhere.
Question from the audience: The main question is, what are your plans for the future?
Arsen Mednik: It’s a serious question. I want to take everything from life that belongs to me, and what doesn’t belong to me, I won’t take. As for work, of course, I will work. I’ve been thinking about shoe repair, and I’m also a jewelry craftsman. I understand jewelry, and I’m good at making orders. So I will definitely try something new and do something.
Question from the audience: I want to continue the question — do you associate your future with Europe and the European Union or with Ukraine after our victory?
Arsen Mednik: Of course, with Ukraine. This is my home, and I’ll build everything for myself there. Don’t even tell me about Europe.
Question from the audience: First of all, I want to thank you for coming here and sharing your stories. I also want to continue thanking you for your fight and exploits. I’m from Lithuania myself, and you’ve said many times that you’re defending Ukraine. But it seems to me that everyone in Lithuania also understands that you are protecting not only Ukraine, but also us. We are all aware that you are fighting for other countries. You’re holding back aggression, and if you hadn’t held it back, it would have moved on. Thank you very much for that.
Arsen Mednik: I would ask everyone: if you see a Ukrainian soldier, thank him. It’s a small thing, but he would feel really good. He would understand that he did not fight in vain. When a person from a foreign country comes up and thanks you for fighting there, it helps you realize that you really didn’t fight in vain.
Question from the audience: You have mentioned several times that the situation with discrimination and racism has improved. Do you see any progress? Why do you think the situation is improving in Ukraine?
Arsen Mednik: There was a lot of abuse before 2014. People were walking home from work after receiving money, and on their way home, going to a store or bar, they might encounter the police or gangsters, who for no reason could take the money, check their documents, or even beat them up. I’m telling you the truth, there was such a situation. After 2014, when the situation in the country changed, everything calmed down somehow. The police system has also undergone changes, has become better, and there is less discrimination. When the war started in 2022, discrimination decreased even more because people began to realize that the main thing is to survive, and their goal is no longer to humiliate someone, but to help. That is, people started helping each other. I don’t know what will happen after the war. It’s still a question.
Question from the audience: Attitudes towards Roma have changed in Ukraine in recent years. 10 years ago, few people could have imagined that Roma would actively participate in public life and politics. This is a great achievement for Ukraine. What can you say about how the attitude towards Roma in Ukraine has changed?
Janush Panchenko: I would like to emphasize that the problem of discrimination is a more complex process than just mistreatment of Roma. This is a mutual process that has several sides. On the one hand, many Roma do not receive education, on the other hand, not all Roma want to receive it. This creates misunderstanding on the part of other people, because lack of communication and openness leads to stereotypes. However, Roma often do not want to open up to the outside world, and, of course, the historical background also has an impact. This process is difficult to simplify because it involves many factors. Personally, I have never faced discrimination against myself. However, as Arsen says, I was faced with the fact that others saw something unusual in me, unlike their ideas about Roma. People often perceive me as an exception, and this has sometimes even helped me in my life. For example, I studied at the Kiev National University, and when I enrolled, my whole family told me: “You’re going to Kiev, you’re going to live among non-Roma, don’t tell anyone that you’re a Rom, come up with something else.” I followed this advice for a long time, but then a guy with the surname Tsygankov turned up in my dorm room, and this always provoked conversations about Roma, even though he had nothing to do with us. I tried to hold back, but eventually I stopped hiding my identity. Over time, people began to realize that I react to such things very sensitively, and I began to stand up for myself and my community. At the university, when I came out, it, on the contrary, played in my favor. Teachers and professors began to treat me with great interest and attention, which actually helped me. This is an example of how such situations don’t always work one way.
Question from the audience: We see that thanks to the heroism of people like Arsen and Alexey, the Roma, who are fighting for the freedom of Ukraine, giving their health and sometimes their lives so that Ukraine wins this war, there is a greater inclusion of the Roma community in Ukrainian society and positive changes in institutions, the inclusion of Roma opinion at the decision–making level. Janush, as a person who is deeply connected with the Roma community and at the same time is a public activist, and also knows the European mechanisms, how do you see the mission of Roma public organizations now? What needs to be done to consolidate these positive changes in post-war Ukraine and to ensure that the Roma continue to integrate into Ukrainian society and that their voices are heard? How can negative processes be overcome?
Janush Panchenko: Now there are many areas for work, for example, combating discrimination, human rights protection, formal and non-formal education. There are really many opportunities to improve the situation with Roma in Ukraine. However, I think that the fight against discrimination is now happening at the front. Arsen, Alexey and other guys, about a thousand Roma who are fighting on the front line, have done more in three years to combat discrimination and improve the image of Roma in Ukraine and Europe than one would expect. This contribution is not only to the fight against discrimination within the country, but also in Europe. What can public organizations do? It all depends on whether others will know about these people or not. Will their stories remain in textbooks and history books? These people have already sacrificed their health, they have families, they are expected at home, but they have taken this step. Many have given their lives in this struggle, and they have already made a significant contribution to making the public aware of this. An example is the situation with the stolen tank in Lyubimovka in 2022, when Roma seized the tank. It has become an international event. We conducted a sociological study in 2023, and to the question “Have you heard that Roma stole a tank?”, 55% of Ukrainians replied that they knew about it. This shows how information about such an event can affect people’s attitudes. Later, when asked if attitudes towards Roma had changed over the past year, many replied that they had changed in a more positive way. This is an example of how such events can affect public perception. I believe that if the stories of the Ukrainian Roma who came to the front became widely known, it would be an important contribution to the fight against discrimination. Such stories need to be heard, and they need to be widely disseminated.
Stefania Kulaeva: We will do our best to make these stories sound. We also thank you very much for the fact that you heroically fought for Ukraine. Thank you for sharing your experiences. After all, there are people who faced occupation, abuse and discrimination, but are not ready to talk about it, and this is really important. As Janush said, as many people as possible should know about that. We will definitely publish our discussion in a text format in different languages. We thank the audience for their attention and interest in the Roma theme.